WikiLeaks video ‘electrified’ public to civilian war deaths, court hears

Assange faces ‘mishmash’ of charges

Under cross-examination by James Lewis QC, representing the government, Hager said Assange appeared to be facing a “mishmash” of charges.

“There are charges of publication of official information and it appears to me that various things have been appended to it to strengthen the charges,” he said.

Hager agreed with Lewis that Assange had not been charged with publishing the “Collateral murder” video, but he said it was the combined effect of the video with other information published by WikiLeaks that was important.

“The way that information has an effect on the world through media and public debate does not happen in a neat way as in a court room,” he said. “The war diaries, the video, the Guantanamo detention reports affect the world as a whole.”

Lewis pressed Hager on whether he had ever paid a government official to disclose a secret, conspired with a government official to hack a computer, or conspired with a government official to crack a password.

“What you are asking here is based on a fundamental misunderstanding of the work that I do,” said Hager. “The part I am picking up is passivity. You might imagine investigative journalists protect themselves by only receiving information passively.”

Investigative journalists go out and find sources, encourage them to provide information, to provide documents or a memory stick, he said. “We work with people who are, in most cases, breaking the law when they work with us. We have to talk with them how to protect themselves. We have pastoral responsibilities.”

Questions over unredacted documents

Lewis followed a line of questioning he has pursued with other defence witnesses.

He quoted an article from The Guardian criticising a decision by WikiLeaks to publish its full archive of secret US diplomatic cables without redaction, “potentially exposing thousands of individuals named in the documents to detention, harm or putting their lives in danger”.

Hager responded: “WikiLeaks did not release it until it came out in other places. That is my understanding.”

Lewis referred to claims reported in the Los Angeles Times that WikiLeaks had published 133,000 state department cables that contained some names marked “strictly protect” and had put lives in danger, asking whether Hager would like to revise his answer.

“I am sure you know those facts are disputed facts,” said Hager. “I don’t want to give an answer to a hypothetical question when the facts are disputed.”

Lewis also questioned Hager about the book Inside WikiLeaks written by journalists David Leigh and Luke Harding.

Taken with a pinch of salt

According to the book, one evening at the Moro restaurant in London, Leigh raised concerns with Assange about the risk of publishing documents.

“Well, they’re informants,” Assange is quoted as saying. “So, if they get killed, they’ve got it coming to them. They deserve it.”

Hager said he knew through investigative journalist networks that there was bitter antagonism between Leigh and Assange at the time.

“I would take anything written with a pinch of salt,” he said. “If I think a source is unreliable, there is no basis in me making a comment.”

Lewis said the prosecution had footage of an interview with Assange at the Frontline Club for journalists in 2010, in which he said it was regrettable that sources disclosed by WikiLeaks may face some threat.

Lewis said that Assange said in the interview: “We are not obligated to protect other people’s sources, military sources or spy organisations unless from unjust retribution.”

Hager said he did not agree with that statement.

Questioned by counsel for Assange, Hager said it was significant that WikiLeaks had not published unredacted documents until they had previously been published in other media.

He said WikiLeaks had taken great care to redact information when he was working with the organisation. “I don’t believe that Julian Assange and WikiLeaks changed their mind and did not care any more,” he added.

Hager said there was a nine-month gap before WikiLeaks’ publication, which meant the US government had nine months to contact anyone at risk. 

Assange led efforts to contact the State Department, so it could contact vulnerable sources, he said.

Other websites published the documents first for their own reasons, after a password related to a database of documents on the internet was published, Hager told the court.

He said that in his view, the quote from Assange in Leigh and Harding’s book was unreliable given that The Guardian and WikiLeaks had fallen out. “If I was writing a book, I would not use that as a solid piece of evidence, not in those circumstances,” he said.

Hager said he was aware that one of the charges against Assange concerned receiving and obtaining the military’s rules of engagement.

“There was a realisation that civilian casualties were out of control during those wars,” he said. “It was a highly relevant document to be published.

“The idea that publishing them [the rules] puts troops at risk is a based on a severe misunderstanding.”